A TRIVET MODEL: CREATING SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITY-BASED SOCIO-ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in any historic village in Turkey)
by Övgü Gökdağ
BS in Political Science & Public Admistration ,
FEAS, 1993 Bilkent University, Ankara, Turkiye
ASSİİ_açık.sosyal.sürdürülebilir.iletisim.insiyatifi
İlk Belediye Sk. 33/2
Beyoğlu 34420 İstanbul ,Turkiye
Phone :+90 212 2929195
E-mail: ovgu.assion@gmail.com
Mobile:+90 05058360931
Preface
The name Trivet is inspired by the symbol of the Tahtaci Türkmen tribe of Mount Ida: the goose foot print. For ten days every August, these people camp and sacrifice animals at Gargaron Peak on Mount Ida, a tradition which dates from the fall of Troy when Aeneas led the survivors to Mount Ida. This triad reminds me of the trivets that village women use for cooking in their courtyards in the summer.
This trivet model is a design for alternative sustainable business development. My own village, Assos-Behram, where I have lived with my family for seven years, has had unsuccessful experiences with foundations and farmers’ cooperatives. The villagers are result-oriented and define success as the ability to earn money; they learn best by copying a successful business. This attitude is at the core of their survival for five thousand years on the same site. A once-prosperous city of 5000 changed with time to a small, poor village of less than 1000 people. They dream of becoming prosperous again, but do not know how to achieve this dream.
This paper is the sum of my life expreience and I am thankful to the many people who helped me express these ideas. Special thanks to Dr.Hakan Seckinelgin from London School of Economics for time spent editing, to English Literature and Philosophy Professor Clinton Vickers & Ferruh Armutçuoğlu from Galatasaray University for editing my English, and to my family and friends for sharing their ideas with me and for their patience.
Objective
To create an alternative responsible business model to enable village communities to earn a better year-round living while preserving local social and cultural values and a stable ecological environment. To reduce the destruction of the local environment by providing opportunities for villagers to earn money while continuing to protect their cultural, historical, and ecological heritage.
How Trivet Works
This model consists of three different concepts which can work well together or independently. Implementation can start with any of the three projects. Implementing two or all three of the projects would reduce the risk of failure since each would support the others – as the three legs of a trivet provide stability and support the whole.
The first unit is a community center to preserve and sustain the socio-cultural and ecological values of the village. This community centre documents the traditional knowledge of living and establishes a data centre to support local socio-economic and cultural development. This multi-use centre is the core of the project. It can serve as a tool for preserving local culture and for enhancing positive change.
The second unit is creating a brand name and a niche market for locally produced, organically certified products. A strong local brand identification will foster sustainable production and sales. A variety of seasonal products would provide year-round employment and income, alleviating the unemployment problem of uneducated people in the village.
The third unit is the creation of an organization to promote and manage year-round, sustainable, cultural and historical heritage eco-tourism. A cradle of ancient civilization, Turkey has hundreds of historic sites and beautiful natural surroundings.
The fire under this trivet model is designing an alternative internet marketing tool to promote responsible consumption. This is a win-win-win project through which everybody will share the food cooked on the trivet.
Why Assos-Behram village is chosen for implementing the trivet model.
The ancient names of the village are City of Asi, Assus, Asion and Assos. Today we use Behram Village. To represent the future, I prefer to use Assos-Behram. The village of Assos-Behram has been continuously inhabited on the current site for 5000 years. It is located on a hill above Edremit Bay on the northern Aegean coast of Turkey adjacent to the Greek island Lesvos. The area along the coast from Babakale (Lekton) to Kucukkuyu (Gargara) is generally called Assos. Geographically, this area controls the strategic sea passage south of the Dardanelles between Lesvos and the mainland of Asia Minor. Remains of a human settlement dated 3000 BC have been found here. The Greek city of Assos was built on this site in the 8th century BC, 50 kilometers south of Troy. A city of 5000 people flourished here for a thousand years. Aristotle taught for three years in Assos and married here. Atop the hill are the ruins of a temple of Athena built in the 6th century BC. Below are the ruins of the ancient walled city with amphitheater, stoa, gymnasium, and necropolis. A 14th century Ottoman mosque shares the hilltop with the Greek ruins.
On the hill, the old village is architecturally protected and controlled by the Turkish government. The General Directorate of Cultural Heritage and Monuments has registered 208 houses and four monumental buildings reconstructed from the 3000-year-old building stones of older houses on this site. Within the last twenty years, about one third of the houses have been restored.
Below the old village on the hill to the west is the new part of Assos-Behram. Here new houses are built and village sons are given land to build houses when they marry. Two kilometers down the hill to the south is the Iskele, the site of the ancient harbour, with a small boat harbour and several large tourist hotels and restaurants. To the east, four kilometers from Assos-Behram toward Kucukkuyu is Kadırga Bay, once an Ottoman shipyard, now a long stretch of relatively unspoiled beach with several hotels.
The town of Altinoluk, 40 kilometers east of Assos-Behram on Edremit Bay, forms a clear contrast to Assos-Behram and an image of what Assos-Behram might well become if villagers continue to sell their land for economic development because they are unable to make a living on it in the traditional ways. Once Altinoluk was also a small historic village on a hill overlooking the coast. Now it is a sea of vacation condominiums; hundreds of large apartment complexes cover the hills and the coastal plain below them. The streets and the beaches are crowded with summer residents. Most of the original villagers, vastly outnumbered by the summer people, make their living working in large stores, tourist shops, hotels, and restaurants, not by harvesting olives and tending sheep and goats.
Most of the villagers of Assos-Behram make their living from the animals they own, from harvesting olives on their land, and from tourism. There are a few small shops, but no grocery store, hardware store, or bank. You can buy bread and snacks, souvenirs and daily newspapers in Assos-Behram, but not clothing, construction supplies and tools, medicine, or electronics. Trucks come through occasionally selling local fruits, vegetables, clothing and kitchenware. Assos-Behram has no doctor or medical clinic. There is no ATM machine. Villagers shop in Ayvacik or Kucukkuyu. Many visitors come to Assos to view the ancient ruins and enjoy its spectacular beauties, but most stay only a few hours or a few days. Tourists climb to the acropolis past village women trying to sell local herbs, olive oil soap, hand-knit socks, and crocheted lace. There are a few condominium complexes close to Assos-Behram, but so far Assos-Behram has escaped the extensive development of summer and retirement homes which have spoiled other communities along this coast.
The danger is that villagers will sell both their land and their life style to developers who will reproduce the escalating growth seen in other towns in the region. Villagers prefer a traditional lifestyle, making money by selling olives and sheep milk. But property values are high and some will be tempted to sell. Land development grows exponentially and is irreversible. If the unique character of Assos-Behram is to be preserved, villagers must be able to earn more money from their olive trees and animals than they do now and achieve a sustainable year-round income rather than the fluctuating, seasonal income most now have.
There are many reasons why sustainable socio-economic and cultural development is both possible and desirable for Assos-Behram:
1) No chemical pesticides are currently used on crops in the area. Tariş, a well-known agricultural cooperation, collects organic olive oil from this village and the surrounding area.
2) Villagers cannot afford to use chemical fertilizers. Their crops are grown organically out of necessity but are uncertified.
3) The older villagers are resistent to change and prefer to live and work in traditional ways rather than selling their land for large scale development. The younger generation, however, desires an urban life, but do not have the education to fill or create the jobs which would support this life style.
4) The area does not interest big hotel owners and investors since it has a rather short summer season – from July to September (3 months).
5) The closest big towns and major commercial or industrial development are more than 25 kilometers from the village.
6) Assos is the home of endemic flora and fauna because of its location on the outskirts of the Mount Ida range, which is protected as a national park.
Implementing the trivet model in Assos-Behram
To initiate sustainable, ecologically sound development for Assos-Behram, I envision three independent but mutually supportive projects working as a trivet for Assos-Behram village: restoring a traditional village house as a community center, building a food production facility and creating a brand name and a niche market for local products, and promoting eco-tourism in the area.
Restorating a traditional Assos-Behram village house as a community center
The objective is to rent or purchase and restore a house in the old village as a museum for visitors to see an authentic village house that reflects the traditional life style. This house underpins the other units of the project. A center can serve as a library for books and photography, an ecological agriculture information and certification office, a printing house to publish booklets on Assos-Behram and ongoing local projects, a small shop to sell the local brand name products, an eco-tourism information and advisory office, and a place for field studies, seminars and workshops
The restoration project would have to be approved by the General Directorate of Cultural Heritage and Monuments at Canakkale since the village buildings are registered as a first grade archeologically important urban site. After restoration, we would open an ethnographic museum and a tourism information centre in the centre. We estimate that this phase of the project would take from three months to two years, depending on the ownership of the house.
A budget analysis for this phase of the project is in process.
Economically sustainable development: building a food production facility and creating a brand name and a market for local products
The objective is to create a local brand name for certified organic agricultural products and local handicrafts, to produce them using traditional methods, to create a targeted market for these products.
Currently villagers produce food for themselves, but they are made at home and cannot be sold through grocery stores or restaurants because the production is uncertified. A certified organic food production facility could be shared by all the villagers and could produce different high quality organic products in different seasons, yielding a year-round income stream. The village could produce cheeses in the spring; homemade-style jams, tomato sauce, dried figs, fig and wine vinegars, and tarhana (a dried tomato-yogurt soup base) in the summer; olive oil and cured olives in the fall; olive oil soap and body lotions scented with local herbs and flowers in the winter. Production would be in fairly small quantities, but of highest quality and marketed to maximize the income to the villagers. A single local brand name and logo would become identified with top quality products from Assos-Behram. Products could be sold locally to tourists, in specialty shops in Istanbul and Izmir, and in boutique shops on the internet. Village women could also market locally produced textiles and handicrafts under the same brand and in the same markets.
Year-round sustainable cultural-heritage eco-tourism activity
The objective is to recognize Assos-Behram village as a fundemental part of our heritage to be preserved for current and future generations, to develop and manage a sustainable tourism policy which supports the quality of villager life, and to increase benefits from tourism to the local economy.
The Tourism Information Office in the cultural center would promote year-round eco-tourism in Assos-Behram to appropriate target markets. The office would provide accurate information about Assos-Behram and the surrounding area and its archeological heritage. It could sell guide books, maps, and photographs and prepare and present slide shows for visitors. The library in the community center would serve as a source of traditional knowledge and folklore for both villagers and visitors.
An active tourism center could initiate and promote other local projects: map the antique roads used by St Paul during his missionary journeys and organize pilgrimage walks from Alexandria Troas to Assos-Behram, provide archeological tours guided by archeologists who have been excavating the ancient site, organize seasonal thematic tours such as olive harvest tours or tours which follow the footsteps of the Iliad, plan a local exhibit of archeological objects now stored at the excavation house and in museums in Istanbul and Canakkale.
Aristotle established his first philosopy school in ancient Assos. A successful annual conference, ‘Philosopy in Assos,’ has been organized by Dr. Örsan Öymen in Assos-Behram for the last four years. This could be followed by an summer school on Aristotelian Philosopy.
The attitude of the villagers towards the project and the risks
The idea of creating a local brand to the original production using traditional methods which is mentioned in the project will only be possible to create awareness about sustainabilty .As an example; Tariş, which is a powerful farmers’ cooperation in the Aegean area, has certified my neighbour’s olive trees and purchases all his products. When we came to the village for the first time knowing this, we publicized that we were planning to run a traditional olive oil factory in the village & this factory will be used as an olile oil museum for visitors . The response was surprising.The villagers supported our idea saying that finally some people came to their vilaage who are planning to invest not on tourism but their inherited olive oil production .This attempt could not be realized because of personal reasons, but 2 years later the first olive oil museum in Turkey was established in Kucukkuyu, a town which is 25 kilometres far at the East.This proves us that the area is ready for these kinds of entrepreneurship.
However, this example is only valid for olive oil. Dried fig is also one of the main products of the area, which is given to animals to get more milk from them instead of using it as an industrial fruit.This shows that one product that proved its success as an industrial product cannot be an example for the other ones since there has not been any attempt or a centre to encourage the use of dried figs.Traditional handicrafts have the same problem. Almost half of the women do embroidery to be sold to the visitors on side-street stalls for pocket money thinking that this material can support them financially.The material that they produce is not authentic and have no name or brand or model.Olive oil soap and white cheese are the other products that are considered as materials for pocket money for the same reason.
The only way to break this vicious circle is to show the villagers how to earn money to make their living while respecting the existing values. The villagers’ conservative and protective attitude carried the vilage to today although they cannot use all their product as a financial resource.But the young generation mosts of them currently are unemployed is spending their families’ money for electronic appliances, mobile phones & better cars.. After the disappearance of the today’s middle aged generation, Assos-Behram will turn into a ghost town whose houses are inhabitted only in summer as in the example of ADATEPE village , since no economic value except from tourism has not been realized yet.
Avoiding destruction of these values is possible only if people earned money from these values.Financial success will encourage other villages in the area, which would be a greater achievement of the project.Alternative industry can be created, sustained and a better can be copied from others.Alternative industry reduces the destruction that human being causes;it causes people to gain environmental and socio-cultural awareness and respect; it provides better financial opportunity in order to protect what exists and it therefore provides local people economic power .
Measuring the efficiency of the project
The time periods and initial costs that will be proposed to realize this project are determined separately for each unit.Therefore, to what extend we have achieved predetermined goals within the given period is subject to periodic evaluation of every 3 month, besides, this achievement should be utilized as a self-control mechanism to create public interest.As a result of this contact the interest and reaction of the people who do not have direct connection with the project will have utmost importance and benefit for the development of the project.
‘The idea of creating a local brand to the original production using traditional methods bur certain standarts which will be mentioned in the project will only be possible provided that we had awareness of existing values.’
Avoiding the destruction of the values of a village is possible only if people earned money from these values.
References and sources
Serdaroğlu, Ümit. Behramkale-Assos,1995
Strabo, Geography, Books 13-14. Translated by Horace Leonard Jones pg: 101, 115, 117, 129
Clarke, Joseph T. Bacon, Francis H. Koldewey, Robert. Investigations at Assos, 1902
Architectural features of Assos-Behram House
There is 208 houses & 4four monumental buildings in the village registered as first grade archeogocially important by the Directorate of Cultural Heritage and Monuments in Canakkale. What makes this House so important is, its design & the use of red andezite stone blocks in its construction as a continuation of a 5000-years old tradition.Assos-Behram House would be a model of a house construction that is common in all of the Northern Aegean region.
The entrance of courtyard of the house is a two sided high wooden gate & house is surrounded by high walls.Generally a cord used to hook them.This cord is tied in knots if there is nobody in the house.When neighbours see this they do not even knock on the door since they know there is nobody in the house.In the courtyard there is small toilet,building a stable,an oven to cook and a stone furnace to bake bread.One of the corners of the courtyard is occupied by a vegetable garden .Life is spent in the courtyard when the weather is good.Indeed, Assos-Behram House is a shelter both in winter when it is very cold and summer when it is very hot.A landing meets you when you enter into the house. A tiny room without any windows facing North is used as a pantry.The large room connected to the landing is the main place where most life spent in which there is a hearth and cooking utensils.This is the place where they live,cook in winter; and sleep on the bed taken out of closet for bedding.In two-storey houses second floor is used as bedroom or guest room. Wooden material is used between the floors which ease the floor heat .In some houses when looked from a distance there is a cupboard at one of the corners of the room that is used as a bathroom in winter.In Assos-Behram houses there is not any furniture except from a sofa and closet for bedding.There is no dinner table so they it on a large tray they put on the floor.I n two-storey houses second floor is used as bedroom or guest bedroom room. Wooden material is used between the floors which ease the floor heat .
In some houses when looked from a distance there is a cupboard at one of the corners of the room that is used as a bathroom in winter. In Assos-Behram houses there is not any furniture except from a sofa and closet for bedding. There is no dinner table so they it on a large tray they put on the floor.
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yerel ürün +yerel pazar, sürdürülebilir yerel kalkınma, gıda kültürü, 8.sanat mutfak, kalıcıtarım(permakültür),GEN duyuruları, gazete yazılarım
7 Ağustos 2008 Perşembe
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YEREL ÜRÜN_ Sağlıklı yiyecek için yerel üreteci kayıt ağı oluşturuyoruz!
Merhabalar,
1999 yılında İstanbul'dan köye göç ederek başlayan yolculuğum hala devam ediyor. 2007 yılı bizim için İstanbul'a dönerek yeniden yapılanma sürecini başlattı.
Köy'de geçirdiğim yıllar bana köylünün şehirliden daha çok insiyatif sahibi olduğunu ama birtakım kanalları açmak için kendini yetersiz hissettiğini öğretti. O yıllarda SAC AYAGI Modeli olarak tanımladığım bir yerel sürdürülebilir kalkınma öngörüsü yazdım. Okuttuğum çoğu kişi çok idealist ve hayalci olduğumu yazdıklarımı gerçekleştirmek için en az 10 yıla ihtiyacım olduğunu belirttiler. Eğer 2002 yılını başlangıç sayarsak 6. yılımıza girdik.
6 yılda yapabildiklerimiz:
1. Sac Ayağı Modeli Tübitak'a kaydoldu.
2. Dünya Ekoköyler ağı projeyi okudu . Bu sayede Findhorn Vakfı'nın Ekoköy eğitimini alabildim.
3. Sac Ayağı modeli Leader Plus Yani Avrupa Yerel Kalkınma Programına kaydoldu.
4. Ispanya Asturias'dan projeyle ilgilendikleri haberi geldi. Asturias'a gittik ve gördük ki yazadıklarımız yapılmış yani hayal değilmiş. Üstelik nasıl yapılacağını da anlattılar.
5. Bildiklerimizi köylüye, yerel yönetime, üniversiteye anlattık.
6. Kendi projemize inandığımiz için yerel ürün için marka başvurusunda bulunduk ve logomuz onaylandı.
7. Köyde yeni zeytinyaği fabrikası inşaatı başladı.
8. Tariş bölgede organik zeytinyaği için sertifikalandırma başlattı.
9. Köylü marka başvurusunda bulunmaya başladı
10. ÇÖMÜ Ayvacık'da Aristo Meslek Yüksekokulu açtı.
11. Bir grup insan Ekoköy kurma girişimi için bölgeye geldi ve yerleşti. Imeceevi doğdu.
12. Buğday Derneği bölgeyle ilgilenmeye başladı ve arazi aldı.
Bundan sonra yapacaklarımız:
Kentten köye göç edicem ama nasıl olacak, diyenler
Organik tarım yapıcam ama nasıl diyenler,
Organik tarım yapıyorum ama sertifikam yok diyenler
Ürünüm tarlada kaldı yine perişanız diyenler
Ekolojik ürünüm var pazarlayamıyorum diyenler
Organik ürün çok pahalı nasıl alabilirim diyenler için
HEPİMİZ İÇİN _ Yerel ürün yerel pazar
"100 bin kişiden 1 YTL " kampanyası
Yerel üretici destekleme ağı ve sağlıklı besin için pamuk eller cebe!!
2. Herkes için Sürdürülebilirtarım eğitimi:
Dünyanın her ülkesinde var ama bir tek Türkiye'de öğretilemiyor. Türkçesi yok çünkü henüz çevrilmedi. Permakültür deyince perma ne ?? Nasıl yani ?? denilmesinden bıktık.
İngiltere'deki ve Avustralya'daki yetkililerle bağlantı kurduk.
Egitimleri Türkiye'de ve Türkçe vermek istiyoruz.
Herkes için ulaşılabilir olmalı....
Permakültür sürdürülebilir insan yerleşimlerinin tasarlanmasıdır. Hem felsefi hem de pratik bir yaklaşım olarak mikro klimaya uyumlu arazi kullanımı , fonksiyonel bitkiler, hayvanlar, toprak ve su yönetimi ile insan ihtiyaçlarının grift olarak ilişkilendirildiği yüksek verimli sistemlerdir.
Permakültür yaşadığımız çevre hakkında dikkatli bir düşünme , kaynaklarımızın kullanımı ve ihtiyaçlarımızı nasıl karşıladığımız hakkındadır. Amacı sadece bugün için değil gelecek kuşaklar için de sürdürülebilir sistemler yaratmaktır.
3. Logomuzu kullanarak yerel zeytinyağı ve ürün üretmek isteyen üreticilerle işbirliği yaparak projeye kalıcı kaynak oluşturmak istiyoruz.
4. Istanbul'da ve Çanakkale'de yerel ürün dükkanları açmak istiyoruz.
Tek tek hepinize ihtiyacımız var. El verecekler lütfen ad-soyad ve iletişim bilgisi vermeyi unutmayın!!!
1999 yılında İstanbul'dan köye göç ederek başlayan yolculuğum hala devam ediyor. 2007 yılı bizim için İstanbul'a dönerek yeniden yapılanma sürecini başlattı.
Köy'de geçirdiğim yıllar bana köylünün şehirliden daha çok insiyatif sahibi olduğunu ama birtakım kanalları açmak için kendini yetersiz hissettiğini öğretti. O yıllarda SAC AYAGI Modeli olarak tanımladığım bir yerel sürdürülebilir kalkınma öngörüsü yazdım. Okuttuğum çoğu kişi çok idealist ve hayalci olduğumu yazdıklarımı gerçekleştirmek için en az 10 yıla ihtiyacım olduğunu belirttiler. Eğer 2002 yılını başlangıç sayarsak 6. yılımıza girdik.
6 yılda yapabildiklerimiz:
1. Sac Ayağı Modeli Tübitak'a kaydoldu.
2. Dünya Ekoköyler ağı projeyi okudu . Bu sayede Findhorn Vakfı'nın Ekoköy eğitimini alabildim.
3. Sac Ayağı modeli Leader Plus Yani Avrupa Yerel Kalkınma Programına kaydoldu.
4. Ispanya Asturias'dan projeyle ilgilendikleri haberi geldi. Asturias'a gittik ve gördük ki yazadıklarımız yapılmış yani hayal değilmiş. Üstelik nasıl yapılacağını da anlattılar.
5. Bildiklerimizi köylüye, yerel yönetime, üniversiteye anlattık.
6. Kendi projemize inandığımiz için yerel ürün için marka başvurusunda bulunduk ve logomuz onaylandı.
7. Köyde yeni zeytinyaği fabrikası inşaatı başladı.
8. Tariş bölgede organik zeytinyaği için sertifikalandırma başlattı.
9. Köylü marka başvurusunda bulunmaya başladı
10. ÇÖMÜ Ayvacık'da Aristo Meslek Yüksekokulu açtı.
11. Bir grup insan Ekoköy kurma girişimi için bölgeye geldi ve yerleşti. Imeceevi doğdu.
12. Buğday Derneği bölgeyle ilgilenmeye başladı ve arazi aldı.
Bundan sonra yapacaklarımız:
Kentten köye göç edicem ama nasıl olacak, diyenler
Organik tarım yapıcam ama nasıl diyenler,
Organik tarım yapıyorum ama sertifikam yok diyenler
Ürünüm tarlada kaldı yine perişanız diyenler
Ekolojik ürünüm var pazarlayamıyorum diyenler
Organik ürün çok pahalı nasıl alabilirim diyenler için
HEPİMİZ İÇİN _ Yerel ürün yerel pazar
"100 bin kişiden 1 YTL " kampanyası
Yerel üretici destekleme ağı ve sağlıklı besin için pamuk eller cebe!!
2. Herkes için Sürdürülebilirtarım eğitimi:
Dünyanın her ülkesinde var ama bir tek Türkiye'de öğretilemiyor. Türkçesi yok çünkü henüz çevrilmedi. Permakültür deyince perma ne ?? Nasıl yani ?? denilmesinden bıktık.
İngiltere'deki ve Avustralya'daki yetkililerle bağlantı kurduk.
Egitimleri Türkiye'de ve Türkçe vermek istiyoruz.
Herkes için ulaşılabilir olmalı....
Permakültür sürdürülebilir insan yerleşimlerinin tasarlanmasıdır. Hem felsefi hem de pratik bir yaklaşım olarak mikro klimaya uyumlu arazi kullanımı , fonksiyonel bitkiler, hayvanlar, toprak ve su yönetimi ile insan ihtiyaçlarının grift olarak ilişkilendirildiği yüksek verimli sistemlerdir.
Permakültür yaşadığımız çevre hakkında dikkatli bir düşünme , kaynaklarımızın kullanımı ve ihtiyaçlarımızı nasıl karşıladığımız hakkındadır. Amacı sadece bugün için değil gelecek kuşaklar için de sürdürülebilir sistemler yaratmaktır.
3. Logomuzu kullanarak yerel zeytinyağı ve ürün üretmek isteyen üreticilerle işbirliği yaparak projeye kalıcı kaynak oluşturmak istiyoruz.
4. Istanbul'da ve Çanakkale'de yerel ürün dükkanları açmak istiyoruz.
Tek tek hepinize ihtiyacımız var. El verecekler lütfen ad-soyad ve iletişim bilgisi vermeyi unutmayın!!!
1 yorum:
merhaba, sizi imece gruptan tanıyorum. buraya da gelip tanışmak istedim. sık sık da uğrıycam sanırım. sevgiler...
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